Landscape advice needed!
Gardening Reference » Gardening in 2005
by tkhooper on May 21, 2005 07:53 PM
Speaking as the person who always got stuck painting the outside of the house I'll tell you what I did last time.
Around the house for about 18 inches i laid down gravel. Why? Because I got tired of being jabbed in the kester by irrate roses and rhoddies while I was tryig to paint. lol
Also that way when the gutters got full of leaves and things and the water decided to pour down on the ground it didn't drowned some poor unsuspecting plant. Also it made keeping the weeds out of that area very easy.
It also helped the runoff run away from the house so I didn't have to worry about my half basement. And then there is the consideration of plant roots and the foundation.
Need I mention that my basement windows also recieved more light this way?
Anyway it was a good solution for me and it didn't look bad either.
I think lawn fabric is a wonderful idea especially around the property line. So that if a neighbor lets their yard go I still have a fighting chance with mine. But I think I'm thinking of different stuff than what you have. I'm thinking of the stuff you put under the ground to stop weeds and unwanted stuff from comming up. You said you put your stuff on top and then cut holes in it for your plants. I don't know anything about that stuff.
Are you going to do any trees? I love raised beds around trees. I think they are fantastic looking. And those 3 tier things that look like a wedding cake for strawberries. I really like them too.
Around the house for about 18 inches i laid down gravel. Why? Because I got tired of being jabbed in the kester by irrate roses and rhoddies while I was tryig to paint. lol
Also that way when the gutters got full of leaves and things and the water decided to pour down on the ground it didn't drowned some poor unsuspecting plant. Also it made keeping the weeds out of that area very easy.
It also helped the runoff run away from the house so I didn't have to worry about my half basement. And then there is the consideration of plant roots and the foundation.
Need I mention that my basement windows also recieved more light this way?
Anyway it was a good solution for me and it didn't look bad either.
I think lawn fabric is a wonderful idea especially around the property line. So that if a neighbor lets their yard go I still have a fighting chance with mine. But I think I'm thinking of different stuff than what you have. I'm thinking of the stuff you put under the ground to stop weeds and unwanted stuff from comming up. You said you put your stuff on top and then cut holes in it for your plants. I don't know anything about that stuff.
Are you going to do any trees? I love raised beds around trees. I think they are fantastic looking. And those 3 tier things that look like a wedding cake for strawberries. I really like them too.
by Longy on May 21, 2005 11:03 PM
G'day Mary, welcome to the forum. I'm not a great fan of the landscape fabric. In future though if you want to divide perenials etc just cut the fabric to access the roots and you'll be right. It is a hassle though. Maybe you could use the rest for a little shadehouse or similar???
Mulch is a great thing. Hardwood mulch is excellent stuff as it lasts for years. Any disadvantages are far outweighed by the advantages. Be aware that if the mulch is still green , as in not aged yet, it will reduce the nitrogen in the soil as it ages. This can be remedied by applying a high nitrogen organic fertiliser such as pelletised chicken manure to the soil prior to laying the mulch. It's not a bad idea to do this anyway even if the mulch is well aged. The plants will love it. If you're making new gardens i'd recommend you spend plenty of time on the soil before getting too involved in the rest of the garden. It'll pay dividends immediately after you plant . Good luck in your endeavours.
Mulch is a great thing. Hardwood mulch is excellent stuff as it lasts for years. Any disadvantages are far outweighed by the advantages. Be aware that if the mulch is still green , as in not aged yet, it will reduce the nitrogen in the soil as it ages. This can be remedied by applying a high nitrogen organic fertiliser such as pelletised chicken manure to the soil prior to laying the mulch. It's not a bad idea to do this anyway even if the mulch is well aged. The plants will love it. If you're making new gardens i'd recommend you spend plenty of time on the soil before getting too involved in the rest of the garden. It'll pay dividends immediately after you plant . Good luck in your endeavours.
by MaryReboakly on May 22, 2005 04:25 AM
Hey TK - I originally wanted to do gravel around the house, but mulch was the more affordable option. We do have one huge walnut tree out back, that's hurting for some landscaping. I absolutely love your idea of the cascading beds for strawberries! Does it hurt the tree though, having soil in around it above the roots?
Longy, thanks for your welcome! I'm wondering, if I put the mulch on top of the landscape fabric, if it will affect the nitrogen levels in the soil below? I'm so new at this, sorry if I ask really 'duh'-type basic questions. I'll have to look for chicken manure. I've been trying to be patient and not jump into planting before the soil is ready...but, its hard! I do have a great deal of worms, so I think my soil is pretty good. We also had a lot of leaves that mulched the beds for us, since the previous owners didn't clean up at all. On one hand, something positive came from that![[Wink]](im/wink.gif)
Thanks for your responses...I'm sure I'll be back with more questions before you know it. There's so much to absorb, and I'm trying to learn quickly so I don't miss the planting season completely!
Mary
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Longy, thanks for your welcome! I'm wondering, if I put the mulch on top of the landscape fabric, if it will affect the nitrogen levels in the soil below? I'm so new at this, sorry if I ask really 'duh'-type basic questions. I'll have to look for chicken manure. I've been trying to be patient and not jump into planting before the soil is ready...but, its hard! I do have a great deal of worms, so I think my soil is pretty good. We also had a lot of leaves that mulched the beds for us, since the previous owners didn't clean up at all. On one hand, something positive came from that
Thanks for your responses...I'm sure I'll be back with more questions before you know it. There's so much to absorb, and I'm trying to learn quickly so I don't miss the planting season completely!
Mary
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by tkhooper on May 22, 2005 04:42 AM
on a raise bed around a tree you do have to keep the soil away from the base of the tree. Usually a ring of some type of edging will pretty well insure that the raised bed doesn't go where it shouldn't. (And it can be the cheaper kind because it isn't going to show lol).
by NearWater on May 22, 2005 12:11 PM
Mary,
Walnut trees in the landscape are rare these days. The roots of the tree produce a substance that is toxic to many plants and all those oversized green golf balls you have to clean up ...
My first rule of gardening is study. Here's a link of value about Walnut Trees .
If it were me, grass. Then I plant a few trees around the weep line or outer edge of the foliage. Maybe dogwood, crabapple, hemlock and spruce. Toss in some squirrel proof feeders and a bird bath and you have a nice little habitat. It gives you a wooded area and you can garden outside the (expanded) parameter or not.
Walnut trees in the landscape are rare these days. The roots of the tree produce a substance that is toxic to many plants and all those oversized green golf balls you have to clean up ...
My first rule of gardening is study. Here's a link of value about Walnut Trees .
If it were me, grass. Then I plant a few trees around the weep line or outer edge of the foliage. Maybe dogwood, crabapple, hemlock and spruce. Toss in some squirrel proof feeders and a bird bath and you have a nice little habitat. It gives you a wooded area and you can garden outside the (expanded) parameter or not.
by MaryReboakly on May 22, 2005 07:33 PM
Thanks for that link. This might sound stupid, but I had been told it was a walnut tree, and never really looked up what walnut trees look like. I don't know now whether it is or not! It's pretty big - not sure if I can see any of the leaves well enough to get a picture of them, but I sure am going to try. (picturing myself up on a ladder with my camera! ![[Big Grin]](im/biggrin.gif)
)
I'll report back - more than likely to the mystery plant forum! I don't think the leaves look like those on that website...but I could be wrong. Ugh, I gotta go see NOW! It'll drive me crazy(er) otherwise!
Mary
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)I'll report back - more than likely to the mystery plant forum! I don't think the leaves look like those on that website...but I could be wrong. Ugh, I gotta go see NOW! It'll drive me crazy(er) otherwise!
Mary
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by MaryReboakly on May 23, 2005 05:50 AM
NearWater, if you're around can you check out my tree pictures and let me know if it's a walnut? I'm wondering if it might be a hickory? Thanks!
Mary
tree photo #1
tree photo #2
tree photo #3
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Mary
tree photo #1
tree photo #2
tree photo #3
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by Longy on May 23, 2005 11:56 AM
I'm wondering, if I put the mulch on top of the landscape fabric, if it will affect the nitrogen levels in the soil below? I'm so new at this, sorry if I ask really 'duh'-type basic questions.
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Geez Mary. Call that a "DUH" question and i'd hate to see an involved one. As near as i've been able to find out (and i'm prepared to be corrected on this), the weedmat will not prevent the nitrogen drawdown from the soil below. I reckon this is because it creates a chemical reaction in the interface between mulch and soil and this draws the nitrogen up. Don't worry though, it's easily replaced. If you can't get chicken manure, (and i would be amazed if you couldn't get dynamic lifter or some other pelletised product) get any high nitrogen organic fertiliser. Even blood and bone or bonemeal will do what you need to do.
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Geez Mary. Call that a "DUH" question and i'd hate to see an involved one. As near as i've been able to find out (and i'm prepared to be corrected on this), the weedmat will not prevent the nitrogen drawdown from the soil below. I reckon this is because it creates a chemical reaction in the interface between mulch and soil and this draws the nitrogen up. Don't worry though, it's easily replaced. If you can't get chicken manure, (and i would be amazed if you couldn't get dynamic lifter or some other pelletised product) get any high nitrogen organic fertiliser. Even blood and bone or bonemeal will do what you need to do.
by MaryReboakly on May 23, 2005 07:20 PM
LOL Longy, thanks for not thinking my question was a duh type
I should be able to get chicken manure - I live in the middle of the country now (middle of nowhere, really!) and there should be some chicken farmers selling it...problem is I dont know where/who they are! I'll have to ask around. Worst case, I'll go with blood/bone meal - I've seen that at the big box stores.
Here's another question. Since I have fabric/mulch down...I would only be able to get the manure/meal down right around the flowers in the holes that are cut - is that good enough, or should it really be spread over the entire bed? I'd hate to have to go back and pull up the fabric and re-lay it, but if I gotta, I will!
Thanks for your help!
Mary
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I should be able to get chicken manure - I live in the middle of the country now (middle of nowhere, really!) and there should be some chicken farmers selling it...problem is I dont know where/who they are! I'll have to ask around. Worst case, I'll go with blood/bone meal - I've seen that at the big box stores.
Here's another question. Since I have fabric/mulch down...I would only be able to get the manure/meal down right around the flowers in the holes that are cut - is that good enough, or should it really be spread over the entire bed? I'd hate to have to go back and pull up the fabric and re-lay it, but if I gotta, I will!
Thanks for your help!
Mary
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by Longy on May 23, 2005 10:22 PM
Mary if you use pure chicken manure fresh it can burn the plants roots. It's very volatile when fresh so see if you can get some thats been aged.It would be good to get some and just store it in a pile for a few months for futuer use.I use my chook poo up i9n my compost bins and then spread the compost. If you're in the country, there will most probably be a produce store selling grain and hay etc. This is where you'll get the pelletised stuff. It's probably better as it is aged and balanced with other nutrients. There is no problem just spreading the plant food over the whole area and watering it in. Or after spreading just go round and agitate it with a hoe or rake and then water. Always apply any fertiliser to moistened soil and always water well afterwards.
by busy backyard on May 23, 2005 10:36 PM
I have had great success keeping weeds at bay with 2 types of mulch.
1. grass clippings- they break down quickly but the resource is constant
2. Straw- if you don't like the looks, a layer of grass clippings on top tones it down. I also use straw all over to protect plants from my Z 4 winters.
btw: weeds still grow thru these mulches, but its easy to pull them since soil is usually moist.
Which makes me remember the other positive use of these mulches! They help tremendously in retaining moisture in the soil.
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Busy Backyard
1. grass clippings- they break down quickly but the resource is constant
2. Straw- if you don't like the looks, a layer of grass clippings on top tones it down. I also use straw all over to protect plants from my Z 4 winters.
btw: weeds still grow thru these mulches, but its easy to pull them since soil is usually moist.
Which makes me remember the other positive use of these mulches! They help tremendously in retaining moisture in the soil.
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Busy Backyard
by MaryReboakly on May 24, 2005 12:39 AM
Thanks Longy & busy...
I'll definitely be careful with whatever manure I get (if any)...I have a feeling I'll resort to the bonemeal for a while until I get a compost pile going. That's another thing on my ever growing to-do list!
Busy - I sure get enough grass clippings, that I could probably supply the entire town with clippings! Problem with a lot of my grass right now, though, is that it's pretty poor, in that we have a lot of crabgrass and weeds throughout. I dont want to put the weeds back in my beds LOL! I like the hay/straw idea (what's the difference, anyway?) and can probably get some bails pretty cheap around here...I might go that route!
Thanks again!
Mary
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I'll definitely be careful with whatever manure I get (if any)...I have a feeling I'll resort to the bonemeal for a while until I get a compost pile going. That's another thing on my ever growing to-do list!
Busy - I sure get enough grass clippings, that I could probably supply the entire town with clippings! Problem with a lot of my grass right now, though, is that it's pretty poor, in that we have a lot of crabgrass and weeds throughout. I dont want to put the weeds back in my beds LOL! I like the hay/straw idea (what's the difference, anyway?) and can probably get some bails pretty cheap around here...I might go that route!
Thanks again!
Mary
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by floweraddict on May 24, 2005 07:25 AM
Mary,
I can give u some advice concerning bark mulch... It's great! I use both the pine and hardwood mulch. It all changes color and turns gray eventually, gradually decomposing into dark soil.
Three years ago i was given over 500 cubic yards and i have just a small pile left.
I tried the fabric cloth a couple times- it proved to be worthless against bermuda grass. I finally had enough of that nonsense and used Roundup to keep the bermuda under control.I had to spray a couple times. The trick is to keep it out of your garden (don't let it in!). Lay the mulch heavy in open areas, but go light around the base of plants. I put just enough mulch around the base of the plant to hold the moisture in.
Yes, i've read that about hardwood mulch staining your siding when fungus "goes crazy"... i think it might be a bit exaggerated- never had a problem with it (maybe my siding was a bit higher off the ground). I used a lot of hardwood mulch- i don't see any problems...
Bark mulch does attract slugs and snails, but there plenty of products out there that will kill them or keep them under control.
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Bob
I can give u some advice concerning bark mulch... It's great! I use both the pine and hardwood mulch. It all changes color and turns gray eventually, gradually decomposing into dark soil.
Three years ago i was given over 500 cubic yards and i have just a small pile left.
I tried the fabric cloth a couple times- it proved to be worthless against bermuda grass. I finally had enough of that nonsense and used Roundup to keep the bermuda under control.I had to spray a couple times. The trick is to keep it out of your garden (don't let it in!). Lay the mulch heavy in open areas, but go light around the base of plants. I put just enough mulch around the base of the plant to hold the moisture in.
Yes, i've read that about hardwood mulch staining your siding when fungus "goes crazy"... i think it might be a bit exaggerated- never had a problem with it (maybe my siding was a bit higher off the ground). I used a lot of hardwood mulch- i don't see any problems...
Bark mulch does attract slugs and snails, but there plenty of products out there that will kill them or keep them under control.
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Bob
by MaryReboakly on May 24, 2005 07:36 AM
Perfect timing!!!
I was just scouring the net for info on my hardwood mulch, that I really love the look of, and started freaking about termites & artillery fungus. So glad you came along and posted now, when I was breaking!
What I'm wondering is, since I got mine pretty cheap (about $2 for a 2-3(?) cu ft bag), if it has been composted at all. I'll have to check the bag I have (left) tomorrow and see if there's any info on that. Apparantly, the younger it is, the more chance you have of termite/fungus problems.
I'm quickly becomming a non-fan of the landscape fabric. Just today I spent about an hour pulling up grass and 'little trees' that have grown up THROUGH the fabric! Geesh.
I've been looking at bermuda grass pictures. With all the cr*p I have in the yard, I can't believe I dont have any -- figure I just can't identify it yet! I do know I have crab grass galore![[Frown]](im/frown.gif)
But, eventually I'd like to tear up 75% of my grass and replace with flower beds...and the other 25% will be paths through my flowery gardens!
We had a lot of slugs & snails before the mulch...not too worried that we'll get more - I mean, we had a lot to begin with, so it's already a problem that needs control. I just stress about the termites most, I guess. The 'old' part of our house is built on river rock - it's a fairly old house. All walls (even interior) are solid wood, with boards running horizontally. We have a small house on the property (about 50' from the main house) that suffered major termite damage (but they're gone now). I guess that's what gets me freaky about termites. Don't wanna wake up one morning IN my garden! LOL!
Thanks for the encouragement - may be I'll keep it?!
Mary
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I was just scouring the net for info on my hardwood mulch, that I really love the look of, and started freaking about termites & artillery fungus. So glad you came along and posted now, when I was breaking!
What I'm wondering is, since I got mine pretty cheap (about $2 for a 2-3(?) cu ft bag), if it has been composted at all. I'll have to check the bag I have (left) tomorrow and see if there's any info on that. Apparantly, the younger it is, the more chance you have of termite/fungus problems.
I'm quickly becomming a non-fan of the landscape fabric. Just today I spent about an hour pulling up grass and 'little trees' that have grown up THROUGH the fabric! Geesh.
I've been looking at bermuda grass pictures. With all the cr*p I have in the yard, I can't believe I dont have any -- figure I just can't identify it yet! I do know I have crab grass galore
But, eventually I'd like to tear up 75% of my grass and replace with flower beds...and the other 25% will be paths through my flowery gardens! We had a lot of slugs & snails before the mulch...not too worried that we'll get more - I mean, we had a lot to begin with, so it's already a problem that needs control. I just stress about the termites most, I guess. The 'old' part of our house is built on river rock - it's a fairly old house. All walls (even interior) are solid wood, with boards running horizontally. We have a small house on the property (about 50' from the main house) that suffered major termite damage (but they're gone now). I guess that's what gets me freaky about termites. Don't wanna wake up one morning IN my garden! LOL!
Thanks for the encouragement - may be I'll keep it?!
Mary
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by floweraddict on May 24, 2005 08:02 AM
I wouldn't worry about the termites- they are everywhere! The key is to make sure that u have proper ventilation under your home (assuming u have a crawl space and not a basement)to keep moisture to an acceptable level. Laying 6 mil plastic would reduce moisture levels greatly. Also,check for clogged gutters, and pipe the water far enough AWAY from the house will help prevent water from seeping thru your foundation and under your home.
People don't realize how important it is to divert water AWAY from the home when landscaping their yard.
I hope u have a FANTASTIC garden this year!
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Bob
People don't realize how important it is to divert water AWAY from the home when landscaping their yard.
I hope u have a FANTASTIC garden this year!
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Bob
by MaryReboakly on May 24, 2005 08:36 AM
Hmmm well, almost a crawl space. Well, ok, not really even a crawl space. It has vinyl siding right down to the ground on the side that's sitting on river rock Kinda stressful, not sure what we can do about it. Wish we could get in there to lay plastic. One of these days I'll win the lotto and have it done right ![[Smile]](im/smile.gif)
Gutters/downspouts are the one thing I CAN fix right now! It's on my project list...need to replace and/or install them. Poor house was really neglected for a looong time.
Thanks, Bob, I hope you have a great garden this year too!
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Kinda stressful, not sure what we can do about it. Wish we could get in there to lay plastic. One of these days I'll win the lotto and have it done right Gutters/downspouts are the one thing I CAN fix right now! It's on my project list...need to replace and/or install them. Poor house was really neglected for a looong time.
Thanks, Bob, I hope you have a great garden this year too!
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by Longy on May 24, 2005 02:32 PM
But, eventually I'd like to tear up 75% of my grass and replace with flower beds...and the other 25% will be paths through my flowery gardens!
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Mary, maybe your dream of the garden beds can possibly be aided by reading this thread. I'm not in favour of taking away grass to build a garden as you remove the most useful topsoil as well as the organic matter and humus which is already in the soil. Better to incoorporate the rotting/composting grass into the new bed. Anyway, have a read and see what you think.
http://www.thegardenhelper.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/21/35.html
I agree not to be freaked out by termites. Just make sure your house is protected. As for hardwood fungus. They're just helping in the decomposition process and eventually it's all good for the soil. Application of mulch will always help in the longer term, even if the short term may have a few probs. Gardens are for life. That's a pretty long term;)
+++++++++++++++
Mary, maybe your dream of the garden beds can possibly be aided by reading this thread. I'm not in favour of taking away grass to build a garden as you remove the most useful topsoil as well as the organic matter and humus which is already in the soil. Better to incoorporate the rotting/composting grass into the new bed. Anyway, have a read and see what you think.
http://www.thegardenhelper.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/21/35.html
I agree not to be freaked out by termites. Just make sure your house is protected. As for hardwood fungus. They're just helping in the decomposition process and eventually it's all good for the soil. Application of mulch will always help in the longer term, even if the short term may have a few probs. Gardens are for life. That's a pretty long term;)
by MaryReboakly on May 25, 2005 04:51 AM
Hi Longy!
I guess I misspoke - I really didn't mean I'd tear it up in the true sense...I just meant do away with it. I'm starting to talk like the natives here. The beds I've done so far are on top of grass that's been turned over. Of course I dont know that I did it right, but I weeded as much as I could first, then dug it all up about 12 inches down, flipped it over, then ran over it with the 'weasel' (manual tiller) until all the lumps were out. Spread some peat moss over top (don't know why...acted like I knew what I was doing! LOL!) Then we put down the landscape fabric, cut our holes, planted our stuff, and laid about 3-6 inches of mulch over top.
Thanks for the link to that thread - I sure will try it that way next bed I make. I'll also see what I can get done about getting plastic down around my foundation that's sitting on rock - though that's going to be quite a challenge! I won't give up on hardwood mulch just yet (can't afford the rocks anyhow LOL!).
Oh, by the way...I checked the manufacturer of the brand of hardwood mulch we got, and they say it is "a triple-processed aged hardwood mulch made from a mixture of hardwood barks", so I think that's good!![[thumb]](im/graemlins/thumb.gif)
Mary
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I guess I misspoke - I really didn't mean I'd tear it up in the true sense...I just meant do away with it. I'm starting to talk like the natives here.
The beds I've done so far are on top of grass that's been turned over. Of course I dont know that I did it right, but I weeded as much as I could first, then dug it all up about 12 inches down, flipped it over, then ran over it with the 'weasel' (manual tiller) until all the lumps were out. Spread some peat moss over top (don't know why...acted like I knew what I was doing! LOL!) Then we put down the landscape fabric, cut our holes, planted our stuff, and laid about 3-6 inches of mulch over top.Thanks for the link to that thread - I sure will try it that way next bed I make. I'll also see what I can get done about getting plastic down around my foundation that's sitting on rock - though that's going to be quite a challenge! I won't give up on hardwood mulch just yet (can't afford the rocks anyhow LOL!).
Oh, by the way...I checked the manufacturer of the brand of hardwood mulch we got, and they say it is "a triple-processed aged hardwood mulch made from a mixture of hardwood barks", so I think that's good!
Mary
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Search The Garden Helper:
Now that I'm reading these boards, I see landscape fabric can be nothing but a hassle, mulch can get fungus that will explode and spot my house, and now I'm wondering how my perennials will multiply in their little hole. Did I mess it all up?
I just want a purty garden!
Do I continue with the yards and yards of fabric I have left? I've got a lot of garden to plant yet, and am ready to lay more down, if I even should. May be I should do the newspaper thing? What about mulch? I love the look of the hardwood mulch (it's almost black) against the white house and colorful flowers - but I don't want it exploding on my house!
What to do, what to do...
Any and all advice/comments appreciated!
Mary
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